GPSBabel a refugee from https://code.google.com/p/gpsbabel/ Do we hate github?

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GPSBabel a refugee from https://code.google.com/p/gpsbabel/ Do we hate github?

Robert Lipe-2
Google's codesite, which we happen to use, is shutting down in August.  We went to c.g.com because we were forced to flee from sourceforget.

The site goes read-only in under a month.  I have business travel and some personal vacation in August that means we are either going to do this at the last minute or we're going to pick a new home like really quickly.

I've looked at self-hosting instead of relying on the "free for opensource projects" efforts that come and go and despite being twice bitten and my distaste for Git,, I'm still thinking that Github is the "obvious" place for us to go.

Given our low commit rate ("commits per month", not "commits per hour") and our low number of contributors and committers (thank you, tsteven4!)  and the public outpouring of love for git even though the complexity makes me squeamish, it looks like GitHub is the place for us to go.  As a bonus, we get nice Travis CI to replace Steven's valiant efforts with Jenkins.

I don't know of anyone with large outstanding submits that would be complicated by this and really, it's unlikely that anyone is working on something deeper than a new format without us knowing about it, so I think this will be mostly invisible to most of us.   Other than having to checkout and track completely new projects and use new SCM tools.  

Barring strong vocal support in the short term, GPSBabel's official SCM will move to Git in Github soon... Probably within the next 24 hours or after next week as that's my window to work on this.


Any objections (that include better alternatives) to moving our SCM from SVN on c.g.com to Git on GitHub?


Yes, this kinda sucks and will inconvenience a couple of us.  Yes, I waited a long time before accepting to deal with this. Yes, it'll be bad to have publicly release doc that's about to be wrong.  Yes, we should consider whether our last commit is to delete everything with a scary "we've moved" message" vs. just rolling with it.   But this is what it is.

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Re: GPSBabel a refugee from https://code.google.com/p/gpsbabel/ Do we hate github?

Oliver Eichler
Hi Robert

I share your distaste for Git. That is why I decided to use Mercurial
for my project. Comparing Git and Mercurial I just had the feeling that
operating Mercurial is more down to earth. And there is a nice usable
Python GUI available for all OS. For a project similar to yours, low
developer base and commit frequency, it's sufficient for sure.

just my 2 cent.


Oliver

Am 30.07.2015 um 08:04 schrieb Robert Lipe:

> Google's codesite, which we happen to use
> <https://code.google.com/p/gpsbabel/source/checkout>, is shutting down
> <http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2015/03/farewell-to-google-code.html>
> in August.  We went to c.g.com <http://c.g.com> because we were forced
> to flee from sourceforget.
>
> The site goes read-only in under a month.  I have business travel and
> some personal vacation in August that means we are either going to do
> this at the last minute or we're going to pick a new home like really
> quickly.
>
> I've looked at self-hosting instead of relying on the "free for
> opensource projects" efforts that come and go and despite being twice
> bitten and my distaste for Git,, I'm still thinking that Github is the
> "obvious" place for us to go.
>
> Given our low commit rate ("commits per month", not "commits per
> hour") and our low number of contributors and committers (thank you,
> tsteven4!)  and the public outpouring of love for git even though the
> complexity makes me squeamish, it looks like GitHub is the place for
> us to go.  As a bonus, we get nice Travis CI
> <https://travis-ci.org/gpsbabel/gpsbabel> to replace Steven's valiant
> efforts with Jenkins.
>
> I don't know of anyone with large outstanding submits that would be
> complicated by this and really, it's unlikely that anyone is working
> on something deeper than a new format without us knowing about it, so
> I think this will be mostly invisible to most of us.   Other than
> having to checkout and track completely new projects and use new SCM
> tools.  
>
> Barring strong vocal support in the short term, GPSBabel's official
> SCM will move to Git in Github soon... Probably within the next 24
> hours or after next week as that's my window to work on this.
>
>
> Any objections (that include better alternatives) to moving our SCM
> from SVN on c.g.com <http://c.g.com> to Git on GitHub?
>
>
> Yes, this kinda sucks and will inconvenience a couple of us.  Yes, I
> waited a long time before accepting to deal with this. Yes, it'll be
> bad to have publicly release doc that's about to be wrong.  Yes, we
> should consider whether our last commit is to delete everything with a
> scary "we've moved" message" vs. just rolling with it.   But this is
> what it is.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gpsbabel-code mailing list  http://www.gpsbabel.org
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gpsbabel-code


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Re: GPSBabel a refugee from https://code.google.com/p/gpsbabel/ Do we hate github?

Ladislav Laska
In reply to this post by Robert Lipe-2
Hi!

I hope you'll like git, and that github won't go away!

> Yes, this kinda sucks and will inconvenience a couple of us.  Yes, I waited
> a long time before accepting to deal with this. Yes, it'll be bad to have
> publicly release doc that's about to be wrong.  Yes, we should consider
> whether our last commit is to delete everything with a scary "we've moved"
> message" vs. just rolling with it.   But this is what it is.

I think setting the redirect flag is kinda enough:

https://code.google.com/p/support-tools/wiki/GitHubExporterFAQ#Setting_the_"Project_Moved"_Flag



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S pozdravem Ladislav Láska                          <[hidden email]>
Katedra Aplikované Matematiky, MFF UK               tel.: +420 739 464 167

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Re: GPSBabel a refugee from https://code.google.com/p/gpsbabel/ Do we hate github?

Greg Troxel
In reply to this post by Robert Lipe-2

Not that I've sent in much, but my $0.02 from lurking for a long time
and having been through these discussions about quagga and pkgsrc-wip:

* I can see why people find git awkward.  But the other side of the coin
  is that it is arguably the dominant SCM among the broader free
  software community, and that more or less everyone has to learn it,
  except those who really choose not to and limit what projects they
  interact with.  Once learned, it's easy to use.   I personally learned
  git to deal with gpsd, and then I chose it for a big project at work,
  and now I prefer it.

* hg is similar to git, without a few rough edges, and without as much
  mindshare and surroungind ecosystem.  I have not actively avoided
  learning it, but it's an interesting data point that I have not yet
  been pushed to learn it to contribute to something.

* Genarally, I think Free Software projects should be hosted by
  charitable organizations that have Free Software as a purpose (e.g.,
  FSF, SFC, ASF).  So while I prefer self-hosting or 501(c)3 hosting
  philosophically, I can't in good conscience advise against github for
  what is essentially a 1-person project, because self/etc. is too hard
  for not enough gain.

* With github, the project could still have to flee at some future
  point.  (At least google is being quite polite about google code
  shutdown, in terms of notice.)  But since the git repository is the
  main state, and everyone has clones of it all the time, the dangers
  are much lower, leaving only the inconvenience.


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Re: GPSBabel a refugee from https://code.google.com/p/gpsbabel/ Do we hate github?

Robert Lipe-2

All  great points so far.

Git's dominance is indeed why I'm not fighting it this time.  Github has a similar mindshare; it's where the majority of open source projects seem to be, so devs and users are familiar it.

On Jul 30, 2015 7:16 AM, "Greg Troxel" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Not that I've sent in much, but my $0.02 from lurking for a long time
and having been through these discussions about quagga and pkgsrc-wip:

* I can see why people find git awkward.  But the other side of the coin
  is that it is arguably the dominant SCM among the broader free
  software community, and that more or less everyone has to learn it,
  except those who really choose not to and limit what projects they
  interact with.  Once learned, it's easy to use.   I personally learned
  git to deal with gpsd, and then I chose it for a big project at work,
  and now I prefer it.

* hg is similar to git, without a few rough edges, and without as much
  mindshare and surroungind ecosystem.  I have not actively avoided
  learning it, but it's an interesting data point that I have not yet
  been pushed to learn it to contribute to something.

* Genarally, I think Free Software projects should be hosted by
  charitable organizations that have Free Software as a purpose (e.g.,
  FSF, SFC, ASF).  So while I prefer self-hosting or 501(c)3 hosting
  philosophically, I can't in good conscience advise against github for
  what is essentially a 1-person project, because self/etc. is too hard
  for not enough gain.

* With github, the project could still have to flee at some future
  point.  (At least google is being quite polite about google code
  shutdown, in terms of notice.)  But since the git repository is the
  main state, and everyone has clones of it all the time, the dangers
  are much lower, leaving only the inconvenience.


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Re: GPSBabel a refugee from https://code.google.com/p/gpsbabel/ Do we hate github?

Jason Slagle
In reply to this post by Robert Lipe-2

On 7/30/15, 2:04 AM, "Robert Lipe" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Google's codesite, which we happen to use, is shutting down in August.  We went to c.g.com because we were forced to flee from sourceforget.

The site goes read-only in under a month.  I have business travel and some personal vacation in August that means we are either going to do this at the last minute or we're going to pick a new home like really quickly.

I've looked at self-hosting instead of relying on the "free for opensource projects" efforts that come and go and despite being twice bitten and my distaste for Git,, I'm still thinking that Github is the "obvious" place for us to go.

Given our low commit rate ("commits per month", not "commits per hour") and our low number of contributors and committers (thank you, tsteven4!)  and the public outpouring of love for git even though the complexity makes me squeamish, it looks like GitHub is the place for us to go.  As a bonus, we get nice Travis CI to replace Steven's valiant efforts with Jenkins.

I don't know of anyone with large outstanding submits that would be complicated by this and really, it's unlikely that anyone is working on something deeper than a new format without us knowing about it, so I think this will be mostly invisible to most of us.   Other than having to checkout and track completely new projects and use new SCM tools.  

Barring strong vocal support in the short term, GPSBabel's official SCM will move to Git in Github soon... Probably within the next 24 hours or after next week as that's my window to work on this.


Any objections (that include better alternatives) to moving our SCM from SVN on c.g.com to Git on GitHub?

None.  I find svn’s branching model terrible for a lack of better word.

I actually think by going to github, you fairly significantly reduce the effort for people to contribute.  With git’s forking/branch/clone model and the pull request/issue system on github, people contributing changes like the ones you mentioned the other day becomes easy.  As an added bonus you can have travis complain right on the pull request if it broke the build.

Jason

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Re: GPSBabel a refugee from https://code.google.com/p/gpsbabel/ Do we hate github?

Robert Lipe-2

Branching in svn is indeed awkward. We've used it only a few times in the distant past and in retrospect, shouldn't have, even then.

The demonstrated Travis configuration is less exhaustive than what we have now, but we can improve that. It's per check-in and not once or twice a day and has the nice trait that it's mostly maintained by someone else. (Not that Steven hasn't done a great job; I recognize it's been a lot of non strategic effort for him.)

Since we seem to have many github users here,  does https://github.com/gpsbabel/gpsbabel seem like I basically have the beat?

I may spend today or tomorrow updating that, fixing our doc, setting the moved flag, and calling it done.  We can still apply any submitted patches.

On Jul 30, 2015 9:22 AM, "Jason Slagle" <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 7/30/15, 2:04 AM, "Robert Lipe" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Google's codesite, which we happen to use, is shutting down in August.  We went to c.g.com because we were forced to flee from sourceforget.

The site goes read-only in under a month.  I have business travel and some personal vacation in August that means we are either going to do this at the last minute or we're going to pick a new home like really quickly.

I've looked at self-hosting instead of relying on the "free for opensource projects" efforts that come and go and despite being twice bitten and my distaste for Git,, I'm still thinking that Github is the "obvious" place for us to go.

Given our low commit rate ("commits per month", not "commits per hour") and our low number of contributors and committers (thank you, tsteven4!)  and the public outpouring of love for git even though the complexity makes me squeamish, it looks like GitHub is the place for us to go.  As a bonus, we get nice Travis CI to replace Steven's valiant efforts with Jenkins.

I don't know of anyone with large outstanding submits that would be complicated by this and really, it's unlikely that anyone is working on something deeper than a new format without us knowing about it, so I think this will be mostly invisible to most of us.   Other than having to checkout and track completely new projects and use new SCM tools.  

Barring strong vocal support in the short term, GPSBabel's official SCM will move to Git in Github soon... Probably within the next 24 hours or after next week as that's my window to work on this.


Any objections (that include better alternatives) to moving our SCM from SVN on c.g.com to Git on GitHub?

None.  I find svn’s branching model terrible for a lack of better word.

I actually think by going to github, you fairly significantly reduce the effort for people to contribute.  With git’s forking/branch/clone model and the pull request/issue system on github, people contributing changes like the ones you mentioned the other day becomes easy.  As an added bonus you can have travis complain right on the pull request if it broke the build.

Jason

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Re: GPSBabel a refugee from https://code.google.com/p/gpsbabel/ Do we hate github?

Ladislav Laska
Hi!

It's a bit strange that the git repository has a subdirectory called gpsbabel
and only other 2 files on the same level (that is travis configuration, and
autogenerated readme). Was it always like that in the SVN? It may be a good time
to change that, if you want to.



--
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Katedra Aplikované Matematiky, MFF UK               tel.: +420 739 464 167

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Re: GPSBabel a refugee from https://code.google.com/p/gpsbabel/ Do we hate github?

Conrad Meyer
In reply to this post by Robert Lipe-2
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 11:04 PM, Robert Lipe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Google's codesite, which we happen to use, is shutting down in August.  We
> went to c.g.com because we were forced to flee from sourceforget.
>
> The site goes read-only in under a month.  I have business travel and some
> personal vacation in August that means we are either going to do this at the
> last minute or we're going to pick a new home like really quickly.
>
> I've looked at self-hosting instead of relying on the "free for opensource
> projects" efforts that come and go and despite being twice bitten and my
> distaste for Git,, I'm still thinking that Github is the "obvious" place for
> us to go.
>
> Given our low commit rate ("commits per month", not "commits per hour") and
> our low number of contributors and committers (thank you, tsteven4!)  and
> the public outpouring of love for git even though the complexity makes me
> squeamish, it looks like GitHub is the place for us to go.  As a bonus, we
> get nice Travis CI to replace Steven's valiant efforts with Jenkins.
>
> I don't know of anyone with large outstanding submits that would be
> complicated by this and really, it's unlikely that anyone is working on
> something deeper than a new format without us knowing about it, so I think
> this will be mostly invisible to most of us.   Other than having to checkout
> and track completely new projects and use new SCM tools.
>
> Barring strong vocal support in the short term, GPSBabel's official SCM will
> move to Git in Github soon... Probably within the next 24 hours or after
> next week as that's my window to work on this.
>
>
> Any objections (that include better alternatives) to moving our SCM from SVN
> on c.g.com to Git on GitHub?
>
>
> Yes, this kinda sucks and will inconvenience a couple of us.  Yes, I waited
> a long time before accepting to deal with this. Yes, it'll be bad to have
> publicly release doc that's about to be wrong.  Yes, we should consider
> whether our last commit is to delete everything with a scary "we've moved"
> message" vs. just rolling with it.   But this is what it is.


Hi,

Not that I'm a huge contributor, but I'm all for migrating to git and
Github in particular.

Thanks,
Conrad

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Re: GPSBabel a refugee from https://code.google.com/p/gpsbabel/ Do we hate github?

Robert Lipe-4
TL;DR: GPSBabel has moved from code.google.com to GitHub.  Recommendations for Best Practices, doc, and things to fix or take advantage of welcome.  Please star/follow/ https://github.com/gpsbabel and update your svn trees.


I've set the 'project moved' bit on code.google.com and have verified that it redirects to github, though it does us no favors for things like links to specific files, line numbers, or versions.   The subversion server (soon to go read-only) still serves subversion so if anyone has outstanding work in a tree that they plan to submit, 'svn diff' will still generate a working patch.  (I'm in that category myself...)

$ git clone https://github.com/gpsbabel/gpsbabel.git

Gives you a working repository.  

Ladislav, I'm not fond of that extra "gpsbabel" in our path, but it's what the conversion tools do for us.  The user 'gpsbabel' has a project 'gpsbabel' as there was a time that we hosted a few sibling projects.  Those are behind us now.  I may change it later, 

Since I'm new to git and github myself, I'd appreciate guidance on how to effectively work in it as a group.  It looks like the "Fork & Pull" method is what we want, though I've not yet worked out how to bridge from the pointy clicky web interface to the shell prompt where you're doing the real work.   Anyone wanting to help suggest or test process is welcome. Recommendations for good doc on effective git/github use and exemplary projects are also welcome.

It's probably worth mentioning that I had to delete gpsbabel/gpsbabel on GitHub and do the import over.  .travis.yml (trivial, but slow to work out) was the only "real" change I think we lost, but we might have configuration changes for Travis CI or even special perms for our committers (BTW, Steven, I think you can turn down Jenkins now...)  This may cause some temporary unhappiness.  For example, I think Travis thinks we're on revision 10 while GitHub sees a new repo.  I'm working on that.

I'll have to fix my thing that makes entries for Changes.html from the git log, but this gets us moved now.  (I have two trips between now and the read-only retirement...) We can unpack soon.

RJL


On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Conrad Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 11:04 PM, Robert Lipe <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Google's codesite, which we happen to use, is shutting down in August.  We
> went to c.g.com because we were forced to flee from sourceforget.
>
> The site goes read-only in under a month.  I have business travel and some
> personal vacation in August that means we are either going to do this at the
> last minute or we're going to pick a new home like really quickly.
>
> I've looked at self-hosting instead of relying on the "free for opensource
> projects" efforts that come and go and despite being twice bitten and my
> distaste for Git,, I'm still thinking that Github is the "obvious" place for
> us to go.
>
> Given our low commit rate ("commits per month", not "commits per hour") and
> our low number of contributors and committers (thank you, tsteven4!)  and
> the public outpouring of love for git even though the complexity makes me
> squeamish, it looks like GitHub is the place for us to go.  As a bonus, we
> get nice Travis CI to replace Steven's valiant efforts with Jenkins.
>
> I don't know of anyone with large outstanding submits that would be
> complicated by this and really, it's unlikely that anyone is working on
> something deeper than a new format without us knowing about it, so I think
> this will be mostly invisible to most of us.   Other than having to checkout
> and track completely new projects and use new SCM tools.
>
> Barring strong vocal support in the short term, GPSBabel's official SCM will
> move to Git in Github soon... Probably within the next 24 hours or after
> next week as that's my window to work on this.
>
>
> Any objections (that include better alternatives) to moving our SCM from SVN
> on c.g.com to Git on GitHub?
>
>
> Yes, this kinda sucks and will inconvenience a couple of us.  Yes, I waited
> a long time before accepting to deal with this. Yes, it'll be bad to have
> publicly release doc that's about to be wrong.  Yes, we should consider
> whether our last commit is to delete everything with a scary "we've moved"
> message" vs. just rolling with it.   But this is what it is.


Hi,

Not that I'm a huge contributor, but I'm all for migrating to git and
Github in particular.

Thanks,
Conrad

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